Mord in Palästina

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eröffnet am: 24.11.04 12:50 von: Dr.UdoBroem. Anzahl Beiträge: 22
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24.11.04 12:50

39423 Postings, 6857 Tage Dr.UdoBroemmeMord in Palästina

Immerhin gibt es noch israelische Soldaten, die nicht so verroht sind und den Vorfall an die Öffentlichkeit gebracht haben.

Israeli officer: I was right to shoot 13-year-old child

Radio exchange contradicts army version of Gaza killing

Chris McGreal in Jerusalem
Wednesday November 24, 2004
The Guardian

An Israeli army officer who repeatedly shot a 13-year-old Palestinian girl in Gaza dismissed a warning from another soldier that she was a child by saying he would have killed her even if she was three years old.

The officer, identified by the army only as Captain R, was charged this week with illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and other relatively minor infractions after emptying all 10 bullets from his gun's magazine into Iman al-Hams when she walked into a "security area" on the edge of Rafah refugee camp last month.

A tape recording of radio exchanges between soldiers involved in the incident, played on Israeli television, contradicts the army's account of the events and appears to show that the captain shot the girl in cold blood.

The official account claimed that Iman was shot as she walked towards an army post with her schoolbag because soldiers feared she was carrying a bomb.

But the tape recording of the radio conversation between soldiers at the scene reveals that, from the beginning, she was identified as a child and at no point was a bomb spoken about nor was she described as a threat. Iman was also at least 100 yards from any soldier.

Instead, the tape shows that the soldiers swiftly identified her as a "girl of about 10" who was "scared to death".

The tape also reveals that the soldiers said Iman was headed eastwards, away from the army post and back into the refugee camp, when she was shot.

At that point, Captain R took the unusual decision to leave the post in pursuit of the girl. He shot her dead and then "confirmed the kill" by emptying his magazine into her body.

The tape recording is of a three-way conversation between the army watchtower, the army post's operations room and the captain, who was a company commander.

The soldier in the watchtower radioed his colleagues after he saw Iman: "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward."

Operations room: "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"

Watchtower: "A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."

A few minutes later, Iman is shot in the leg from one of the army posts.

The watchtower: "I think that one of the positions took her out."

The company commander then moves in as Iman lies wounded and helpless.

Captain R: "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

Witnesses described how the captain shot Iman twice in the head, walked away, turned back and fired a stream of bullets into her body. Doctors at Rafah's hospital said she had been shot at least 17 times.

On the tape, the company commander then "clarifies" why he killed Iman: "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

The army's original account of the killing said that the soldiers only identified Iman as a child after she was first shot. But the tape shows that they were aware just how young the small, slight girl was before any shots were fired.

The case came to light after soldiers under the command of Captain R went to an Israeli newspaper to accuse the army of covering up the circumstances of the killing.

A subsequent investigation by the officer responsible for the Gaza strip, Major General Dan Harel, concluded that the captain had "not acted unethically".

However, the military police launched an investigation, which resulted in charges against the unit commander.

Iman's parents have accused the army of whitewashing the affair by filing minor charges against Captain R. They want him prosecuted for murder.

Record of a shooting

'It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward'

Operations room
'Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?'

'A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death'

Captain R (after killing the girl)
'Anything moving in the zone, even a three-year-old, needs to be killed'

Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense

24.11.04 17:20

8584 Postings, 6863 Tage RheumaxGanz offensichtlich Notwehr.. o. T.

24.11.04 17:32

107 Postings, 5619 Tage MinirmaxMord in Palästina

Was unterscheidet solche Schweine eigentlich von den Mördern unter Hitler?  

24.11.04 18:31

68209 Postings, 5926 Tage BarCodeWas hat das nun wieder mit Hitler zu tun?

Aber klar: Hauptsache man hat ihn mal wieder erwähnt.

Gruß BarCode  

24.11.04 18:57

3007 Postings, 7485 Tage Go2BedIch hoffe, die Armee zieht die Konsequenzen und

entläßt den Idioten. Wehrlose Kinder zu erschießen ist genauso abscheulich wie sich im Bus in die Luft zu sprengen.  

24.11.04 19:13

25551 Postings, 6828 Tage Depothalbiereralso ich finde, das ist ein unterschied.

bus sprengen würde ich etwa mit 50 kg bombenabwurf vom flugzeug aus in wohnsiedlungen vergleichen.  

24.11.04 19:24

13436 Postings, 7162 Tage blindfishdepothalbierer...

erstmal hallo :-)

und dann ist es tatsächlich ein unterschied: der bombenabwerfer nimmt es billigend in kauf, das zivilpersonen umkommen (ist ihm halt egal). der schütze mit dem zielfernrohr tötet ganz gezielt einen menschen (er will es)! letzteres ist aus meiner sicht noch verwerflicher als ersteres (sofern man da unten überhaupt von verschiedenen "qualitäten" sprechen kann)...


24.11.04 19:54

39423 Postings, 6857 Tage Dr.UdoBroemmeAm peinlichsten die Reaktion der Armee

Ganz tolle Anklagepunkte...

Ist etwa so, als wenn ein Attentäter, der sich im Bus in die Luft sprengt des Verstoßes gegen das Gesetz zur Verwendung von Sprengstoff angeklagt werden würde.

Last Update: 24/11/2004 19:53
IDF chief: probe of killing of girl, 13, was 'grave failure'
By Amos Harel and Gideon Alon, Haaretz Correspondents, and Haaretz Service

Army Chief of Staff Moshe Ya'alon acknowledged Wednesday that the IDF had failed in investigating the alleged "confirmed killing" of a 13-year-old Palestinian girl in the southern Gaza Strip last month.
According to witness accounts by soldiers serving in the area, after the girl was mortally wounded by troops firing from the Girit outpost near Rafah, the commander of a Givati infantry company at the site fired an entire magazine of automatic fire at her prone body.

Such an act, which is contrary to IDF regulations, is referred to as "confirming the kill" in military slang.

The Givati infantry brigade is considering disbanding the company whose soldiers were involved in the incident, military sources have told Haaretz.

The investigation of the killing uncovered serious malfunctions in the performance of the M'sayaat (covering-fire) company of Givati's Sheked battalion, the sources said, adding that there may be no alternative but to break up the company and disperse its members among other units in the brigade.

Ya'alon's remarks were prompted in part by the fact that essential information about the incident was uncovered not by the IDF inquiry, but by outside sources, Israel Radio reported.

"The fact that in our operational investigation we were unable to reach the whole truth, is a grave failure," Ya'alon said Wednesday.

However, the IDF should retain task of conducting investigations of military incidents, Ya'alon said.

"An external investigation will not bring about the disclosure of the truth, rather the opposite." Ya'alon said he was "determined to deal with every incident of this type, in order to root out every failure of values from the Israel Defense Forces."

Officer charged with illegal use of weapon
Captain R., the company commander accused of the "confirmed kill," was indicted in the Southern Command's Military Court Monday. "Confirming" or "verifying a kill" is not listed in the military code as such, and R. was formally charged with illegal use of his weapon in the killing 13-year-old Imam al Hamas, the Palestinian girl who was on her way to school near the Girit outpost.

Military prosecutors issued a five-count indictment against the officer, including two counts of illegally using his weapon, and one count each of obstruction of justice, conduct unbecoming an officer, and improper use of authority. The officer, who has been suspended, was not identified.

Channel Two's documentary show Fact broadcast late on Monday showed the army communications network tape recording of the real-time events, including videotape, in which R. is heard explicitly stating he "verified the kill." The tape showed that the soldiers at the outpost kept firing at the girl even after she had been identified by soldiers as "about 10 years old."

The October 5 event took place around 7 in the morning, when a soldier on duty at the outpost spotted a "suspicious figure" about 100 meters from the outpost. Soldiers immediately began firing at the figure while R., the outpost commander, together with some officers and soldiers, left the outpost and took up a position behind a sand rampart next to the outpost.

The soldiers said they thought she was planting a bomb. The girl's family said she was on her way to school when she was shot. According to the indictment, R. charged the girl after she was shot and fired two rounds at her from close range. He began walking away, then turned around and shot her again.

"The accused stood similarly to the way he stood when he shot her twice - pointed his weapon downward and shot, this time on automatic, approximately 10 bullets until he emptied his magazine," the indictment says. It is not known whether the girl was already dead when he shot her. At the time, Palestinian hospital officials said the girl was shot at least 15 times, mostly in the upper body.

The accused officer initially said he came under fire from Palestinian gunmen at least 300 yards (meters) away as he approached the girl's body and shot at the ground to deter the fire, a military official said. The official could not explain why the officer shot into the ground rather than at the source of the fire.


Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense

24.11.04 23:12

107 Postings, 5619 Tage MinirmaxBarcode

Was der Hinweis auf Hitler soll? Ganz einfach. In den Augen  Israels sind die Deutschen, Nachfahren der  Mörder. Ein populärer Befürworter der Poltik Israels bezeichnet Deutschland als das Lander der Mörder (Michel Friedman). Was liegt deshalb näher,das Fehlverhalten dieses israelischen Soldaten mit dem Fehlverhalten das unserer heutigen Generation nach 60 Jahren immer noch angelastet wird, zu vergleichen?
Es kommt eben immer auf den Standpunkt des Beobachters an.  

24.11.04 23:19

16557 Postings, 6405 Tage MadChartDer Hinweis auf Hitler ist Blödsinn

Hitler war gestern. Hic Rhodos, hic salta!

Oder anders gesagt: Was sind das für Menschen, die auf Kinder schießen?

Oder nochmal anders: Wie weit muessen Mwnschen verrohen, um sich so zu verhalten?  

24.11.04 23:21

16557 Postings, 6405 Tage MadChartKaufe ein "e" o. T.

24.11.04 23:54

107 Postings, 5619 Tage MinirmaxMC

"Oder nochmal anders: Wie weit müssen Menschen verrohen, um sich so zu verhalten"

Ist die Armeeführung, die eigentlich etwas mehr auf dem Kasten haben müsste nicht erst recht verroht, wenn sie mit diesen läppischen Anklagepunkten, die wohl überhaupt doch nur unter dem "Druck" der Öffentlichkeit zustande kamen, das Verhalten des Soldaten fast toleriert?  
"Recht ist, was dem Volke nützt", die Parallelen sind unverkennbar.  

25.11.04 00:22

16557 Postings, 6405 Tage MadChart@Mm: Die strategische Führung einer Truppe

ist meiner Erfahrung nach grundsätzlich vom operativen Geschäft weit genug entfernt, um den nötigen emotionalen Abstand zu irgendwelchen Einzelschicksalen zu haben. Dies trifft auf Vorstandsgremien in der freien Wirtschaft gleichermaßen zu wie auf die Armee.

Die Entscheidung, ad hoc den Abzug zu betätigen oder nicht, muss leider derjenige treffen, der den Schießbefehl als solchen gar nicht befohlen gesehen hast Du recht...

trotzdem: Wer auf Kinder schießt, ist kein Mensch. Over and out!  

25.11.04 01:09

645 Postings, 5790 Tage malakaund wer sich

mit Kindern in die Luft sprengt?
was ist der?
darüber regte sich in der Vergangenheit hier
kaum jemand auf
achja, das sind ja Freiheitskämpfer
das ist natürlich etwas ganz anderes  

25.11.04 08:08

3007 Postings, 7485 Tage Go2BedDa liegst Du aber nicht richtig, malaka.

Für mich sind Leute, die sich in einem Bus oder sonstwo in die Luft sprengen und unschuldige Menschen in den Tod reißen, keineswegs "Freiheitskämpfer" oder "Märtyrer", sondern schlichtweg Terroristen. Die Israelis können gegen Terroristen und auch in Situationen hart durchgreifen, in denen ihre eigene Sicherheit bedroht ist. Das trifft aber in diesem Fall wohl nicht zu. Wenn hier Kinder kaltblütig umgenietet werden, dann muß die Armee hier alle Konsequenzen ziehen.  

25.11.04 09:17

12710 Postings, 7268 Tage Timchen@Minirmax

"Oder nochmal anders: Wie weit müssen Menschen verrohen, um sich so zu verhalten"

Es reicht, wenn Krieg ist. Dann ist fast jeder dazu fähig.  

25.11.04 09:25

51333 Postings, 7158 Tage eckiTimchen pervers!

Verwundeten Kindern ein ganzes Magazin reinzupumpen ist auch im Krieg nicht normal.

Und da war nicht mal ein Schußwechsel oder irgendwas derartiges.


25.11.04 09:56

2176 Postings, 6268 Tage HEBIMensch ist Mensch egal wie alt. o. T.

25.11.04 11:05

107 Postings, 5619 Tage MinirmaxDas Alter spielt in diesem Fall

schon eine Rolle. Wer sich von einer 10-Jährigen bedroht fühlt, dass er so reagiert, tickt nicht richtig.  

25.11.04 11:08

2176 Postings, 6268 Tage HEBIWer mordet tickt nicht richtig. o. T.

25.11.04 11:22

9950 Postings, 6640 Tage Willi1Vorsicht Werbung:

ARD 23.00 Uhr | ARD
Bowling for Columbine

Ausgehend von dem Amoklauf an der Columbine Highschool in Littleton im April 1999, der zwölf Menschenleben forderte, untersucht Dokumentarfilmer Michael Moore die Auswirkungen des Waffenkults in den USA. In einem Mosaik aus Fakten, Interviews und provozierenden Szenen wirft er die Frage auf, warum das Nachbarland Kanada nicht mit derartigen Problemen zu kämpfen hat.

Ich hoffe das hat niemand gesehen, mir hat es das Einschlafen erschwert.
Alles was die USA öffentlich verbrochen und heute korrigieren wollen wurde vorgestellt.



25.11.04 13:44

5230 Postings, 5693 Tage geldsackfrankfurtDas gelingt dem Bush aber nicht

dem ist noch nie so richtig was gelungen...


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